First, I'd like to address my community at The Good Men Project. Our journey together of 4 or so years has been a very enlightening. I feel that I have grown a lot and believed that I saw the same growth in others. If this sounds like a farewell, it may very well be. I am fully prepared to be banned from the site that I've loved for what I have to say today. Just understand that I never gave up on you and the principles and truths we've claimed to follow.
It's easy to talk the talk. It's much harder to walk the walk. That's when we need to decide what makes a good man. Is it the things he says. The things he claims to believe in or are they the things he does, the principles he stands up for.
On the site we pay lip service to the struggles men face as victims of DV. We read articles like
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/brand-what-do-you-do-when-a-girl-hits-you/
We sympathize with the victim. We wring our hands over what happened to him. We say that government should do more to help men in abusive relationship without actually calling on government to do so. I have to ask do we really give a damn or is this just what we';re expected to say? We have articles that suggest that men should feel the full range of emotions. Then when a man shows fear especially in the face of the attack of a woman, our response is "man up". Do we really believe that men should experience the full range of emotions or is that just the politically correct flavor od the month? We decry victim blaming and claim that men shouldn't be blamed when they're abused. Then, excuse the violence that women do to men as justifiable because he had the temerity to resist it.
http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/nfl-dropped-ball-ray-rices-domestic-abuse-case-fiff/
This is the e-mail exchange I had with Lisa Hickey over missing comments. It will show you the last one first. You can make you're own decision over victim blaming. The Good Men Project and I have already made ours and we stand on different sections of the divide.
It's easy to talk the talk. It's much harder to walk the walk. That's when we need to decide what makes a good man. Is it the things he says. The things he claims to believe in or are they the things he does, the principles he stands up for.
On the site we pay lip service to the struggles men face as victims of DV. We read articles like
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/brand-what-do-you-do-when-a-girl-hits-you/
We sympathize with the victim. We wring our hands over what happened to him. We say that government should do more to help men in abusive relationship without actually calling on government to do so. I have to ask do we really give a damn or is this just what we';re expected to say? We have articles that suggest that men should feel the full range of emotions. Then when a man shows fear especially in the face of the attack of a woman, our response is "man up". Do we really believe that men should experience the full range of emotions or is that just the politically correct flavor od the month? We decry victim blaming and claim that men shouldn't be blamed when they're abused. Then, excuse the violence that women do to men as justifiable because he had the temerity to resist it.
http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/nfl-dropped-ball-ray-rices-domestic-abuse-case-fiff/
This is the e-mail exchange I had with Lisa Hickey over missing comments. It will show you the last one first. You can make you're own decision over victim blaming. The Good Men Project and I have already made ours and we stand on different sections of the divide.
_________________________________ E-mail Exchange __________________________
Hi
Lisa, actually I still don't see my comment there. I guess it was
posted and deleted. I suppose it's your site. Here's the thing. Like I
said. I feel that I've grown since joining this community. I like to
think we all have. What's one of the things we've said. Men should
experience and express the full range of emotions. I would think
included fear. Yet, we're quick to discount Ray Rice's fear. We're
quick to discount Ray Rice's doubt or uncertainty in that instant she
charged at him. Oh, if she clawed an eye out and ended his NFL career,
I'm sure GMP would have an article lamenting how society failed Ray Rice
and how male victims of DV should be protected. I'm just not sure the
community actually believes it or if we've come to the point that it's
just politically correct to say we're against violence perpetrated by
women against men, but are fully comfortable with that happening. Maybe
we've become more concerned with looking like assholes rather than
being one.
Sure "victim blaming" comments were deleted, while a victim blaming article was left to stand. If you believe that the video showed Janay Rice hit Ray Rice and if you believe that being the recipient of domestic violence makes you a victim, then Ray Rice was as much of a victim as Janay. In fact since he acted in self defense, he may be the only victim.
Like I said. I don't think Ray Rice is going to get a fair discussion on that thread so I'm done with it. I'm not going to participate in what is the equivalent of a public lynching. I'm not suggesting that there was anything racial involved. I've got a (very dormant) blogger account. It would probably be best if I raised my points there.
Just my opinion.
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 16:21:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Still not able to comment
From: lisa@goodmenproject.com
To: andejoh@hotmail.com
Sure "victim blaming" comments were deleted, while a victim blaming article was left to stand. If you believe that the video showed Janay Rice hit Ray Rice and if you believe that being the recipient of domestic violence makes you a victim, then Ray Rice was as much of a victim as Janay. In fact since he acted in self defense, he may be the only victim.
Like I said. I don't think Ray Rice is going to get a fair discussion on that thread so I'm done with it. I'm not going to participate in what is the equivalent of a public lynching. I'm not suggesting that there was anything racial involved. I've got a (very dormant) blogger account. It would probably be best if I raised my points there.
Just my opinion.
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 16:21:21 -0400
Subject: Re: Still not able to comment
From: lisa@goodmenproject.com
To: andejoh@hotmail.com
Ok,
I found your comment and un-spammed it. So you should be able to
comment, and if you comment again and it doesn't show up just email me
immediately.
That said, we have deleted a lot of victim blaming comments, and this is one of them.
Do
you REALLY think that the only way Ray Rice could have possibly stopped
his fiance from hurting him was to knock her out cold?
Lisa
On Tue, Sep 9, 2014 at 3:45 PM, John Anderson <andejoh@hotmail.com> wrote:
I haven't tried a different discussion thread and I'm still not receiving a spam message. There were several comments made to the thread
http://goodmenproject.com/ethics-values/nfl-dropped-ball-ray-rices-domestic-abuse-case-fiff/
which were deleted. Since then I haven't been able to comment. This was the comment I recently tried to submit. It doesn't sound unreasonable IMO.
__________________ Start Comment _________________________________
I think I'll try one more time and then I'm done commenting on this thread, but that doesn't mean I won't appreciate reading your comments. I also admit and this might be partially blamed on GMP itself, to having some frustration when it comes to reciprocal violence. We all pay lip service to the belief that women shouldn't hit men. We all sympathize with the post What Do You Do When a Girl Hits You? Do we really mean it and do we really believe it?
http://goodmenproject.com/featured-content/brand-what-do-you-do-when-a-girl-hits-you/
What I saw on the video was a woman pushing / hitting a man. I saw the man retreat to the back corner of the elevator. I saw the woman charge him and I saw him with no avenue of retreat throw one punch. After she stopped attacking him, he stopped hitting her. This would be textbook self defense as I understand it. Afterward, we see a man who knew he wasn't allowed to defend himself and now he's in trouble.
Did I not see what I thought I saw? Help me out if something else had occurred. Maybe my eyes were playing tricks on me. Tell me when is it wrong for a woman to hit a man?
________________________ End comment __________________________
I would like nothing more than to continue with you down the path of discovering what a good man is. Personally, I've learned a lot and feel that I'm a different person today. I will always stand up for victims of domestic violence (especially male victims because I think they aren't recognized as often and which I believe he is if my interpretation of the video is correct). I will always stand up for victims sexual abuse / rape (again I admit I tale a stronger stand when the victim is male partly because people don't speak on their behalf). I will do this even when my community won't.
I'm not saying that you made the decision, but someone might have. There are certain principals worth getting banned over if that was the case. I don't have a screen shot of the comment, but I do have one of the thread, which shows 11 comments. Soon after they were deleted I haven't been able to comment. I'll include the screen shot.
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